Should TWTPB be random?
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One thing I'm thinking a lot about is if TWTPB should be random or not... What I mean with random is that you basically never get the same order of formations or enemies. There are som really appealing things about this; procedural techniques can be used to create cool random enemies, I also do not have to code a level editor The downside is that it can be very hard to get the right balance and progression throughout the game. Randomness tend to create to hard or to easy experiences. I personally also think that it is bad for replayability... much of the thrill of playing shooters come from the fact that you need to learn the levels, what enemies appear and how to kill them. What do you think? /hObbE |
Submitted by hObbE
Fri, 08/17/2007 - 15:18
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One could also argue that it is good for replayability.
Should TWTPB be random?
I would say there's generally two kinds of shooters. "Storybased" shooters like [i]Slapfight[/i], [i]Nemesis[/i]/[i]Gradius[/i], [i]Ikaruga[/i] and such, with designed stages, sequenced patterns and a defined endpoint. And then "endless" shooters like [i]Asteroids[/i] or [i]Geometry Wars[/i] that are random in many ways and.. ..virtually endless.
I would also say that storybased shooters are first and foremost about completing the game, perhaps a number of times on different difficulty levels, then (if at all) about trying to beat the highscore. The endless games are strictly about beating the highscore.
In it's current state, I look at twtpb as an endless highscore game meaning once you've played it a couple of times to learn the controls you start to focus on the scoreboard. If the game is to be designed as a pure, virtually endless highscore-game I believe randomness is a must.
If the game is endless and not random, it would probably mean you'd have to play the same levels over and over again to get a high score (like now, but perhaps with more levels and actual backgrounds). If the game has a definite end and isn't random, you would eventually have to learn every single pattern, enemy, powerup and trick, and then make a flawless run to get a chance to be in the top 10. I [i]think[/i] it would be more fun to play (and give the feeling that it's more focused on score right when you start playing the game) if the game instead was both random and endless, meaning no designed/defined levels or sequenced waves. It would also mean the game is more about adaptability, dynamic response and luck (with getting the "right" waves at the right time) than memory.
I do however believe in change and increased difficulty to keep players wanting to see more and to be on their toes. By introducing new enemies, patterns, or allow certain combinations of enemies when you reach certain scores, kill defined numbers of enemies or when different amounts of time have passed, the game keeps progressing - at least to a some extent. (The same could of course apply to backgrounds, colors and music.)
I do understand what you mean with balance, but with the right design and a lot of testing the difficulty factor can be handled. (And thorough playtesting is needed anyway.) The balance can't be rock solid like a "planned" game of course, but if done right that's part of the challenge and fun in these games, remember?
Then again, the game is still in it's early stages, and if you aim for a more storybased game in the end, this would naturally mean a totally different approach. What I think speaks for the "random" design is that it can be made with very little graphic content and still look great, and easier lead to exciting online competition for scores (meaning good promotion). Think "scrolling Geometry Wars".
Should TWTPB be random?
My first intentions for TWTPB was that it was a story based shooter (I even have a "story" for it in my head), and my intentions was that you should "learn" the game.
However, the basic motivating factor in TWTPB is to get on the highscore (and kill some alien scum) and this speak for the more random version. I guess there would be no actual problem in combinding them, although the story would "end" at some point making the rest of the game somewhat misplaced or at least odd... ("you have defeated the big boss, now fight the rest of his minions forever"
)
I'm all for killing my darlings, so I'll go for the more procedural/random infinite variant as for now.
When the basic motivation is to get on the higscore this poses the problem of that a highscore simply gets to hard for a gamer to get onto... Is it really motivating to see a highscore that you know that you probably will not be able to beat? Any ideas on how to combat this? I guess astro creeps suffers from this to...
/hObbE
Should TWTPB be random?
[quote="hObbE"]When the basic motivation is to get on the higscore this poses the problem of that a highscore simply gets to hard for a gamer to get onto... Is it really motivating to see a highscore that you know that you probably will not be able to beat? Any ideas on how to combat this?[/quote]
I understand what you mean and totally agree. Hmm..
A possible solution would be to have "city/region", "national" and "world" high scores - to at least split them apart a bit. Don't know if Hub supports this though, or the possibilities for controlling abuse in a bigger perspective :roll:
I guess it could be done by 1. network statistics and/or 2. collecting user filled-in data, but a system for this would benefit both our own statistics (where are we selling games, how many are playing and where etc) and further development of games with highscores (PQ, AC etc). Ideas on this?
Should TWTPB be random?
Yes... having some region matching stuff could work. But it would not let a noob have a chanse if he happens to live in an area that has many players...
Also i'm not for adding this to hUb... one of the basic premises of hub is that is shall not require logging in, accounts or stuff like that.
Another approach would be to add "leagues" that is you select in what league you want to compete (or the game atomatically selects based on some factor, for example total score of all games played, mean score etc). This could be cool since the game could say: "The emperor has granted you access to the 'Blood Fist' legion"
Yet another approach would be to have time based tables, "All time" "This month", "this week" "todays".
BTW:
TWTPB has been updated with random enemies, a new shooting pattern for enemies, sound and you now have a double cannon to play with
The current sounds are placeholders...
/hObbE
Should TWTPB be random?
I have now started to implement a simple "formation" editor. Doing this i'm starting to realize that TWTPB should probably not be random. Or at least very much less random than now.
Randomness will not produce a good experience, and trying to control randomness seems a bit counterproductive.
The usefullness of randomness will probably also decrease when multiple simultaneous attackwaves are presented.
However, there might be a way to find some happy middleground where it is just right
/hObbE
Should TWTPB be random?
I do think story is important even if its in the background. And if you do have a story in your head I think it should be presented in some way even if the game is totally an endless randomness game. This lets the player get some attatchment to the character they play. In this case the fearless terran pilot.
(Im a rpg freak so...
)
And for the driving force for the game the highscore is just one. Iwould say. Story could be even bigger force (if its good)
But to get back to the question: I think that randomness is good but it need somthing more. If its a story or new ships/upgrades and so on. Ido not know. but something...
when it comes to the highscore issue I think the leagues approach is really nice.
/Mikael
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